DISD - Comments By You
Submitted by Allen Gwinn on Sun, 10/29/2006 - 08:00.
There is obviously starting to be quite a bit of debate surrounding the question: "is DISD really working to educate kids?"
Whether your English-speaking son or daughter finds him or herself in a class taught by a teacher who "has difficulty" with the English language, or the other way around, the question remains: "are District officials taking DISD in the right direction?"
Information on exactly what's going on at DISD can be difficult to get. Whether this is attributable to disorganization, or we're just getting "jacklowed" it can be very difficult to work toward making a difference.
Here are some of your comments. Feel free to share more comments with us.
Language & Education
Ok, let's settle the language thing. Black folks feel free to chime in. Black folks had this law suit, perhaps you've heard of it. It was called Brown Vs. The Board of Education. They worked like the dickens to get into the same classes that the other kids had. They wanted the same facilities, the same text books, the same teachers, and the same education. Why? BECAUSE SEPARATE BUT EQUAL DOESN'T WORK. All it means is that the separate ones get all the left over sub-standard crap. Separate is expensive.
Now, Latinos or Hispanics or whatever they are this week, have sued - just as hard - to be taught in separate classes. Have they learned nothing from the struggle of the black folks? It seems not and perhaps that it why history is doomed to repeat itself.
Furthermore, no one else gets taught in their native languages. Why are Latinos special? Where are the classes in French, Korean, Vietnamese, German, Chinese, or for that matter, Cherokee, Apache, or Comanche? Heck, we were here way before the rest of you folks. Surely that entitles us to be taught in our own language?
One of the reasons that this country has been great is because everyone speaks the same language. Language is not a barrier to the exchange of goods or ideas. This has fueled the economy for generations, since the "American Melting Pot" has been able to cherry-pick the best bits from each culture to make a unique and vibrant brew. Now, we're going to segregate our selves based on language. That's a total violation of the core of what makes America and Americans special world-over.
Furthermore, since public schools are funded by tax-payer dollars, I would like to suggest that the parents be asked for proof of citizenship when enrolling the child. If the parents (who are the ones of tax paying age) aren't citizens they should be made to pay, much like any other student who is out of district, out of state, etc. If the child needs to learn English, send them to Berlitz and bill the parents. Then the burden of funding all this rests squarely where it belongs, on those generating it.
Plyler vs. Doe
On the idea of having non citizen parents pay for public education of their citizen or non citizen children, that has already been addressed in Plyler vs. Doe.
Revisions to education laws in Texas in 1975 withheld state funds for educating children who had not been legally admitted to the United States and authorized local school districts to deny enrollment to such students. A 5-to-4 majority of the Supreme Court found that this policy was in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment, as illegal immigrant children are people "in any ordinary sense of the term", and therefore had protection from discrimination unless a substantial state interest could be shown to justify it.
The court majority found that the Texas law was "directed against children, and impose[d] its discriminatory burden on the basis of a legal characteristic over which children can have little control" — namely, the fact of their having been brought illegally into the United States by their parents. The majority also observed that denying the children in question a proper education would likely contribute to "the creation and perpetuation of a subclass of illiterates within our boundaries, surely adding to the problems and costs of unemployment, welfare, and crime." The majority refused to accept that any substantial state interest would be served by discrimination on this basis, and it struck down the Texas law. (thanks to Wikipedia)
It is my feeling that the immigration issue could be cleared up by aggressivly enforcing the rules already on the books. The practice of companies hiring undocumented workers for reasons alluded to in an earlier post is providing the PULL factor that has brought so many workers to our country. And while these workers are exploited by U.S. standards, the exploitation is much more pleasant than what was happening back home. Going after the large US companies that typically hire undocumented workers through shell sub contracting to lend an air of plausible denial when it turns out the folks doing the low end jobs are not in compliance.
But if this did happen, then things would cost more. And that would not be a bed of roses either. Fortunatly, (sarcasm here folks) the system is working like it should. The children of the undocumented workers have greater marginal propensity to drop out school, which will in several years provide the country with a large undereducated work force willing, only shall I say, condemned to working for substanderd wages for a lifetime due to their failure to take advantage of the free public education they were offered, and now, there will be no longer a need for undocumented workers or low end guest workers to clean our hotel rooms, because we will have a domestic source to supply our cheap labor requirements.
Proof of Citizenship
I understand your frustration, but schools were mandated by a Supreme Court decision in the 1980's to educate a child, no matter their citizenship status. Part of the logic was that if you don't let them come, then you will have a generation of uneducated foreign people who have grown up here.
The problem in Dallas is that those who purport to represent the Mexican immigrants are the same ones who want to keep them isolated by language. That way, THEY can be the SOLE voice and rep for them. It is a power play that the local and national Spanish speaking media perpetuate.
I watch Spanish tv, and it is funny how they advertise CD sets to learn English, but they never have a program --for free-- on their station, you know, the way Sesame Street and other PBS programs have done to get people to learn another language. You can find English-to- Russian, French, German or Spanish classes on cable tv. Can't find one in Spanish to teach English.
Also, don't fall for the stereotype that separating people into classes is a bad thing. Uhhh, colleges do it. They are called beginner, advanced, etc. right? One gripe I have with DISD is that they don't make the counselors separate Spanish speaking kids from non-Hispanic kids in Spanish classes.
You see, the ones who speak it at home are bored to tears, and the English speaking kids get lost. If we separated them, the Spanish speakers could jump ahead, test out of the basics, and then take FORMAL Spanish, so they could be truly bilingual. And, research shows that learning one language well helps in other languages.
Our kids think they are bilingual because they can talk to their family or a store clerk. Nope. They are bi-mediocre, so to say. They speak Spanish and English at the most basic levels, serving nobody well.
Spanish Speaking Parents
I must say that as a teacher in DallasISD it can get extremely frustrating.
Many students are thrown into regular courses that are taught in English.
Many students feel overwhelmed and disconnected because their English is not advanced enough for high school.
Many of my Hispanic students come to school everyday, but they don't do much work. I utilize the other Spanish speaking students to translate for me however, many of them are still discouraged.
I have contacted parents and left messages many have not been returned. I feel that it is because of fear that I would call Immigration/Customs or something like that.
However, I feel that if you are going to put your child in a public school to be educated, you should respond when a teacher calls you.
The system is flawed and we all know it.
The "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT" has caused students on all levels to be hindered--from gifted students, all the way to special education students (who can also be in the same class).
As a teacher, I must cater to the needs of all; whether visual learners, auditory, or kinesthetic.
I must try and reach each and all, everyday, for every lesson I teach.
Now tell me this: when you were in school, did your teacher give you a carbon copy outline of notes, as well as had a copy of those notes on the overhead projector, with pictures showing key components and their functions?
I don't remember all that!
But that is what we are required to do.
It actually is quite easy--especially because my subject is Biology.
Many of these kids, though, are stuggling to learn English let alone grasp an understanding of understanding biology through this langauge barrier.
This issue must be addressed and a solution must be found.
Otherwise, we are producing a lousy product when these students leave our school doors to go off into the real world.
Resources aren't infinite
I'm not saying that they should be turned away. I'm saying that they should be made to pay for what the get. The school system is funded by tax dollars. When you have people using the system but not paying in, it's called leeching. When have enough leeches, the system is shut down because it can no longer be sustained. How close are we to that mark now?
Apparently, it's pretty close, since 26% of all DISD high school graduates are functionally illiterate. Worse yet, DISD is proud of that figure since it's down 7% from last year.
Paying for what they get
Okay, I am not really arguing with you, but----
If these kids, who are illegal, are now residing in Dallas, they get to go to DISD schools. As for the paying for it, again, I am not arguing with you, but what would be your criteria? I own a house and have no kids in DISD, but I pay taxes for the schools. Other kids go to the schools who live in apartments or rent houses, and the owners pay the taxes.
If schools were funded by BUSINESSES, you know, the ones who HIRE the illegal aliens in the first place, then I would be happier.
Also, the illiteracy rate is not something to be proud of, but damn, give some credit. If you lowered your bills by 7 %, reduced crime by 7%, or increased sales by 7%, you would be happy.
DISD teachers teach--- what are the parents doing to back them up?
Do the parents not notice their kids can't read? Or maybe, they can't read either, and therein lies the problem. Illiterate or non-English speaking parents cannot help with homework.
paying for what they get
You are right! The real problem is the parents. They don't put a value on education. The Hispanic culture does not view education like Americans. They don't understand why they should volunteer at school. For our schools/children to be successful, it takes the parents to be involved in their education and the majority of the Hispanics are NOT involved in their children's education.
[Ed Note: Sorry, I don't completely concur here. I think Hispanic parents (lets talk "illegal immigrants") do want their kids to be educated. Otherwise, they would simply withhold them from school (put another way: someone who doesn't respect immigration laws probably doesn't respect others as well). Every immigrant parent, here illegally, that I've talked to wants a better life for his or her kid. They have no desire to see their child in the same situation as themselves. There is a natural hesitation in some communities at participation in some things people feel they shouldn't be a part of.]
Hispanic parents
I would have to disagree with you on this one. I am Hispanic, my parents are Hispanic, and in my family education is highly valued.
I come from a family of engineers, lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc. My maternal grandfather was a doctor, my father was a journalist and my mother was a teacher.
I always knew that I would be going to college, because it wasn't a choice, it was expected of me. Now, I am a teacher.
I don't agree with you that a lot of Hispanic parents are not involved in their children's education. The majority of my students' parents are involved, but I believe that the reason that some do not get involved is intimidation.
They are intimidated by their inability to communicate with the teachers and administrators. Now that a lot of Hispanic children are being taught by teachers who speak Spanish, the parents are becoming more comfortable, and therefore more active.
During parent-teacher conferences I am visited by over 90 percent of the parent.
I call that active!
[Ed Note: I do too! However, you put it correctly: "intimidation". But you probably nailed it on the head better than I could have. I'm glad you are starting to get a handle on parent participation.]
What About Asian Parents?
The major sticking point in a lot of this Spanish language issue is a sense of entitlement, by many who should not even be here. Name another ethnic group that demanded that their language be spoken in already established schools and other institutions.
And the argument that the sheer number of parents who speak Spanish is the issue, nope. THAT is racist. If the Hispanic leaders really and TRULY care about parental access, why don't they also push for Vietnamese or Almaric speaking teachers/principals? Just because a school may not be majority East African or Vietnamese, does that mean the kids are sugar out of luck? (Sorry, only phrase that fits here, fella.) Who translates for them, or sends mesages home for them in their language?
To say that parental involvement is dependent upon the DISD to bend over backwards is silly. What better example for their children than to see Mama and Papi learning English on their behalf? How could it hurt them to learn? Just the terms for homework, truancy, etc? What about Univision or Telemundo? Why don't they help by giving short lesssons on tv?
If I lived in Mexico, China or France, I would never expect--let alone DEMAND-- that they speak my language.
No, the longer you keep those parents monolingual, the more it hurts their family. Sheer numbers are not the issue, language is.
True, but what about jobs?
What do we do about schools that blantly ignore qualified individuals based on not knowing Spanish?
It is rumored that some schools are having to hire Hispanics over other people. At least at one school this may have happened.
The school was forced to over look others for a job that NEVER specified knowing Spanish.
Literacy Rate & Leeching
I still find NOTHING to be proud of in a system that now turns out 1 in 4 (instead of 1 in 3) who is unable to fill out a job application, balance a check book, or read well enough to understand this blog.
That's despicable. Don't you understand what this means? It means that one person out of every four graduating from DISD can't get a job at MacDonalds or Wal-Mart!!!!!!!!! Due to their lack of skills, they are destined for poverty. How can this possibly be a cause for celebration? If one part in four of my work was bad, I'd be finding a new line of work. I don't give a crap about it being down. It's absolutely horrific that it's anything about 5%.
As for making the parents pay, my criteria is exactly what I stated previous. When you go to enroll a child in school, you must bring in proof of the parent's citizenship and a valid IRS tax return. If you don't pay your share, you don't get to reap the benefits of a tax supported system for free. We have fee schedules in place for students that are out of district, out of state, and yes, even out of country.
I'm tired of watching the infrastructure of a place I love be eroded and ground in to the dirt by LEECHES. I don't know what you guys call them elsewhere, but in the IT the concept of leeching means one who sucks up the benefits but provides nothing in return. That's what I see here with the illegal immigrants. They don't pay taxes, but they expect all of the social services that a tax paying citizen gets.
The system is not infinite in it's capacity to support leeching and it has got to end. The only fair way to end it is to end it for everyone.
Leeches?
You want to talk about leeches? Please include the following:
That's tax dollars being wasted.
Yet the state makes it hard to get rid of these kids and their parents.
The courts don't go after them, instead they bother the ones that at least try to attend school.
[Ed Note: You've apparently never been to Al Cercone's court! I'd encourage you to spend a day there]
IRS and Schools?
Okay, your premise is that people must bring an income tax return to enroll? How is that done? Only 8%---yes, 8% of DISD $$ comes from the federal government. The majority comes from LOCAL taxes. About 35% comes from the state. So, paying into the IRS has nothing to do with it. (But! That lousy 8% is what is deiving this TAKS train into the wall of destruction.)
And again, a Supreme Court decision says they MUST be educated. Ability to attend school in Texas---by law---is based on where you live NOW, not where and how you got here. SO, when a kid is enrolled in DISD, the parent provides a lease or utilities bill for proof of residence.
Graduation rates and literacy rates do suck. Guess what? Teachers cannot do it alone! If the parent refuses to take responsibility to teach their kids ANYTHING, the government should? Who taught you to go to school, to balance a checkbook, to look for a job? My parents did that for me. Many of our kids come from sucky homes. Teachers do what they can. But again, with the emphasis on TAKS, TAKS, TAKS, all the other stuff is fallilng to the side.
Also, the idea of "ending it for everyone" comment"?
Uh, why? Some of our schools do great things. Not all schools suck, not all programs suck, and many of our students go on to great and wonderful things.
I would like to see the private sector step up.
1. Quit hiring illegals.
2. Quit profiting from them.
3. Hire Americans at living wages and benefits.
4. Hire teenagers at age 16, not 18, to give students more of a chance to do real, legal jobs.
5. Send employees into the schools to help tutor, mentor, etc...
Oh, but I guess they are busy, or too stretched or whatever. Nope, just blame the schools. Don't take responsibility for the system you pay for.
Seagoville H.S. and Uniforms
Recently I received a letter from DISD asking me if I wanted to send my daughter to another high school because Seagoville can not educate her satisfactorily.
Unfortunately she doesn't want to leave her friends and her friends don't want to go either for the same reason.
From my observation the reason this High School is rated below normal is the overwhelming concern is with the "white shirts tucked in and their belts visible."
Kids who are overweight do not want to draw attention to their size.
Why so much concern with uniforms versus the education?
We need principals who care about what the students are learning, and not so much about what they are wearing.
Last, why the white shirts? Why do they have to be tucked in?
[Ed Note: The uniform policy is set by the board. It solves a lot more problems than it creates. My daughter wears a uniform every day, and I heartily endorse the policy. But I certainly respect your position of disagreement.]
I posted a Rebuttal to the Tucked in shirts
I see you deleted my rebuttal. You have a prejudice site obviously so I won't waste my time here any more. Apparently FREE SPEECH IS NOT APPLICABLE HERE.
Like I said my daughter is not fat. My oldest son is turning 25 soon. My youngest son is in a MAGNET SCHOOL IN DISD. I've been raising children for 25 years.
The point I was making about Seagoville H.S. is my child is there to get an education, why aren't they concentrating on delivering a GOOD EDUCATION?
Lastly I do not have a problem with telling some one to pull his pants up because I don't want to see his underwear.
[Ed Note: Folks, editing Dallas.Org is a one-person operation. I try to edit as many of the comments (which we do allow to be submitted anonymously) as time allows--not for the purpose of censorship, but for succinctness and grammar. I like to help people get their points across--and I do post dissenting opinions all the time (just scroll up or down). Bottom line: I like for people to be judged for the quality of their thoughts--as opposed to their spelling. Sometimes, my time is limited (as it has been the past 2 weeks). So I apologize if I'm not able to post your comment within 1/2 an hour.
As far as a response to this comment (which I didn't edit--just so everyone can see some of the stuff we have to start out with): I'm sorry you and I don't see eye-to-eye on the uniform issue. I believe everything in education is intertwined. I believe that removing distractions from the classroom is one part of a quality education. I'm sorry your child doesn't seem to fit the "uniform" mold--for whatever reason (philosophical or physical). I'm sorry you disagree with the uniform philosophy. I'm sorry it took us so long to publish your comment. But people are free to disagree--and agree to disagree.]
Uniforms
Thank goodness the DISD finally implemented a uniform policy.
To see some of these children with pants hanging down to their knees and girls with skirts short enough to leave nothing to the imagination, is appalling.
I have children in the DISD and they have no problem with the policy. They actually wonder why kids wear their pants like that!
Do these kids not realize they are imitating criminals in jail? That is right!
Their role model is a 'jailbird.'
Way to go, DISD board. I applaud you for doing what was right for the children and teachers!
Tucked in Shirts
Look at it another way: why can't parents get it through to their kids that teachers don't want to see boys' rear ends hanging out of their pants?
You see, DISD passed a policy of having to tell parents that they do not want their boys to look like they are in prison, advertising to become Big Mike's new "girlfriend." So-o-o, the wannabe "gangstas" decided to by shirts that are size 3X or 4X, when the kid is 5' 4" and weighs about 130 lbs. The shirts are more like dresses, and again, look not only stupid, but "gangsta." Also, untucked shirts can easily hide a weapon. I would wonder why parents have so little control over their kids and can't supervise what they wear in public.
In the 1970's, we wore really tacky clothes--but not at school. And you know what? Our parents BACKED THE SCHOOLS. Imagine if parents controlled their kids, how much more learning would take place.
White shirts are used to curb the gang color affiliation. It also gets rid of the pro-gang, pro-violence meassages on shirts. Hey, where have you been the last 10 years? Have you no clue what is going on in the urban teenager's world?
As for overweight kids, take them to a doctor and change the family's diet. Go walking and get rid of the Playstation!
Get on the parents!
The school board needs to get on these parents. We don't need a dress code if we inform the parents that THEY are the ones buying all this offensive stuff. Who is buying the "too large" clothes in the first place?
I don't even bother to tell a child to tuck their shirt in since it has nothing to do with whether or not my school is low performing (we are the prime target for a state takeover).
I am more concern with the student passing that state test.
We have to make parents accountable for their children. No job is more important than a child.
Now there are DISD employees that don't care, but the majority of us do care.
Teen Age Uniforms
You know, I see a lot of this on the train. You can read my DART blog. I see kids wearing Blood & Crip stuff all the time. Normally, it doesn't bother me as long as they leave me alone, but I can definitely see where this would be disruptive in a class room. I can also, in light of the "baggy pants as a style", see where they would want the belt to be visible. I cannot tell you how many times I've been flashed by people wearing this "stylish" clothing. I've seen at least three boys who have managed to accidentally pants themselves in public.
To all who think that they are "really stylin'", I have to tell you that the color of your underwear is TDMPI!
As for the overweight kids, I'm a bit chubby myself. I feel their pain, but you know, my weight problem is my own fault. I need to work out more and eat less. Chances are the anonymous poster is right. Get rid of the Playstation and go to the park instead.
Tucked in White Shirts
Hello what is wrong with the color Green,Navy Blue etc.. I believe the GANG COLORS are RED and BLUE. Wow we have many other colors other then those two. I take it that you don't have children, but WHITE is a hard color to keep clean and looking NEW. My daughter is not fat, either but I know children who are. I don't want to see butts or cracks either on the young men.My sons don't dress like that. Oh yes, on the shirts that look like a dress that can be censored too, just like the dress code.
I have two sons who graduated from West Mesquite H.S. 4 and 6 years ago. Mesquite doesn't have Metal detectors like DISD. My daughter is a senior and I have a younger son in a MAGNET SCHOOL (he loves not having to wear a uniform). Thank God he doesn't have to go to Seagoville H.S.
The point I was making is HELLO MY CHILD IS IN SCHOOL FOR AN EDUCATION, that should be TOP PRIORITY. BUT IT IS NOT.
By the way I've been raising my children the last 25 years. I'm not the one who is clueless!!
[Ed Note: Folks, I want everyone to read this, then a follow-up to it... I've purposely not edited this.]
Education is a priority--when they can get to it
I applaud you for raising four kids. However---
I am so tired of people comparing Mesquite schools to DISD. If you only knew how some of their teachers talked about minority kids behind closed doors.... well.
But, you know what? Mesquite is a small town. Parents who move there from Dallas do so on purpose, which means they already take an interest in their kid's education. Their average income is higher, too. Many DISD parents hatched them from eggs, since one may see horrible parenting going on.
Example: Many parents of 14 yr olds surrender their authority to the kids! The kids decide what to wear, what to tell them , etc...
Yes, teachers in the DISD want education to be the priority, but the environment in which the students learn must be quiet, safe and conducive to learning. It all does go together.
As for white shirts, white can be cleaned, use OXICLEAN. White shirts are easier and cheaper to find. Also, other gangs actually now use other colors.
As for the joy of not wearing a uniform, then your son better not become a cop, a soldier, a pilot, a judge, a doctor, a NASA engineer, a cable guy, a chef, a plumber, or even a short-order cook at Denny's. The world is full of uniforms. Personalities should be stronger than the clothes they wear. Oh yea, and the idea that unity is shown in uniformity, well, there you go. Otherwise, imagine what TO would wear to the gridiron if he didn't have to wear a stinkin' uniform.
Good luck with your kids as they march off into college and beyond. Once they are out, stay involved with DISD issues!
Prejudice
I work with a wonderful woman that is raising her two grandchildren. The oldest attends Madison High School.
He brought home a letter from school with his "senior dues," and the date which they are to be paid.
I told my friend that I would help pay the fees, because they came to quite a bit, especially when you factored in the senior trip.
I gave a check for my share, and her grandson took the check to school. His teacher informed him that they would not take a check, and sent him home with the message that he must bring cash.
I was shocked.
Here, DISD is well known for not managing funds well, and they decide to insist on cash-only payments?
I went to the bank, got cash, and instructed him not to give any money to anyone at school until they gave him a cash receipt.
What a message we send to our children: we not only don't trust you, but we don't trust your parents either!
My question is: if he attended school in far north Dallas, and was white, would they have taken the check?
Racism lives in DISD, and we better not forget it!
[Ed Note: I'm not sure I'm willing to cede 'racism' here. I know that we're quick to cry 'racism' in the absence of proof to the contrary, but I want you to remember "Allen's Golden Cause-and-Effect Corrolary" as it applies to public organizations: Never attribute to malice, that which can be explained away by simple stupidity! I think you probably brushed into someone firmly planted on the left side of the normal curve of brightness :) ...and it would probably happen, as well, in North Dallas]
Prejudice
Great example of racism here? Well, sorry but no.
Hot check writers come in all colors.
They (DISD & PTA) don't take checks because they incur huge fees from the banks; plus who exactly is going to chase all over town recovering the money?
I'm sorry you were offended.
[Ed Note: It would be interesting to note whether black teachers were refusing checks from black parents as well. Also, sorry, but the original poster has a point: the schools should accept checks for things like this. If someone writes a hot check, then you assess them the fees. There are better ways to handle it than asking kids to walk around with large wads of cash.]
Get real
I am sorry, but you should stick to what you know.
Schools have been dealing with these issues for a lot longer than you've been thinking of them. Walk a mile in their shoes before you criticize.
And why do you insist on seeing this as a racial issue?
Black teachers, white teachers, it is not the teacher's policy. They are just doing as the administration tells them.
The parent can walk the money to the office if they're worried. Why are you part of the problem, "editor" ?
An axe to grind of your own, maybe? Edit this, too.
Martha Parks
[Ed Note: OK, but I'd encourage you to go back and read the whole thread before posting next time!]
Stupidity
At many campuses there is a policy to not accept checks since there are a large number of NSF checks that have happened in the past.
I believe you will find this policy at not only south dallas campuses but North Dallas as well.
Of course then there are problems with asking our students to carry large amounts of cash, so I believe we must weigh one policy against the other and then treat all campuses the same.
A receipt should be written for the student no matter if the type of funds: check or cash.
Receipts Over $5
DISD policy is to write a student a receipt for ANY payment over five dollars.
Period.
NSF checks are a problem in all businesses.
Teachers do not have time to track down parents who write hot checks, much less having to embarrass the kid by telling them their parent cannot handle a checkbook.
Find racism where it exists, not where it doesn't.
Teachers in the DISD are sick and tired of hearing about every damn thing they do is "racist."
If they were so "racist," they would all be teaching in the suburbs!
And as for racism, there is no monopoly on that sin. All colors, all classes have racists in them.
Thank your trustees
You can thank Ron Price and Lew Blackburn for not doing anything about Black relations in the schools they cover.
[Ed Note: Actually, these guys spend alot of time with students in schools in their districts. So you need to clarify what you mean here. If you're saying they're "out for special interests" at Board meetings, that's one thing. But if you're saying they ignore kids in their schools, that's not correct.]
Those two are not ignoring
Those two are not ignoring blacks. Here is what you have to understand about blacks in general. Many of us want to help fix our schools. It's the parents that are the issue. They want teachers and staff fired and want everything done for them. Even if it means breaking the law. (forging grades, changing attendance records, letting thier kids fight and so on) That's why so many blacks are leaving my school now. We won't break the law.
You can't help a child when the parent is the issue. I have met so many nice kids and feel sorry for them after meeting the parent. The parents make you not care. Because no matter how hard you try in the school that parent will do thier best to undo it.
Those two are not ignoring
My son is at a DISD school that is 30% hispanic, 30% black, 25% white, and 15% asian.
All the children work hard and the teachers are applauded every day.
The reason: THE PARENTS CARE ABOUT EDUCATION!
They do not view things as 'racist.'
They expect certain things from their children and one of the "things" is respect.
It appears our society no longer respects its teachers or principals. The courts took everything away from the teachers.
When the parents don't teach respect at home and do ridicule their child's teacher, can we expect anything more from the child?
It all leads back to poor parenting; no matter what color or race you are.
DISD Staff insensitive to childrens needs and education
Your comment further illustrates the lack of sensitivity to the needs of students within DISD.
On a number of occassions, even with parents with issues, children within DISD feel the effects of staff disregarding and underestimating the true needs of the children: to get a quality education.
Even though parents should be active in the educational process of their children, teachers and staff are paid to present and execute curricula that prepare our children for social and academic responsibilities.
I never received a formal education, but I am a parent that has issues and insist that my child and others are given the respect and attention they deserve while in a DISD classroom or campus.
Anything outside the classroom or DISD property is solely my burden and responsibility. DISD has to realize that a professional job is what professionals do--so do it regardless of parental issues!
Recently, I became dissatisfied with a teacher at my daughter's school; for not communicating information in a timely manner to curtail problems with my daughters daily progress.
For instance, without a schedule of school events, it is virtually impossible to know everything that goes on within the school. It is the school's responsibility to communicate the school's events to parents and students, instead of parents researching a website to find out whats going on at the school!
Whether we ask direct questions or indirect questions, teachers should take more initiative to address potential problems ranging from classroom conduct to whether the child is eating lunch while at school.
As I look for another district to place my child, I recommend parents with or without issues to demand the best for our children while within the DISD.
I agree and expand
I AGREE wholeheartedly. While kindergarten was great, now first grade - teachers immediately expect children to be "grown" responsible without any learning curve.
While my son is very independent and I have been told by complete strangers - "How do you get your son so well behaved?" - his teacher constantly complains that she can't get him to "be a good boy" at school.
His self esteem is now suffering and he cries at home and tells me he "hates" school.
The teacher was moved from second grade where kids are mostly "broken in" and used to being responsible. Her lack of patience and insensitivity to their fragile and growing egos is not only a concern to me, but many of the other parents in the class.
After trying to talk with her and keep lines of communication open - I have resorted to "dropping him off at 8 and hoping for the best" when he comes home from school.
What I'm witnessing is a total breakdown from the confident, happy intelligent child that I had into a tearful, insecure, angry child that is confused and unorganized.
I'm not a perfect parent, but I can assure you - this has more to do with the lack of respect and accountability at school than my ability as a parent.
With no real direction to go, I am starting to gather information and log the heirchy that is DISD. Who knows, with any luck my kid will stay out of jail, as they are turning him into a juvenile delinquent. Oh and better than that, I'm actually PAYING them to do it.
Brilliant!
Whose Job Is It?
I am sorry, but it is not the job of the Dallas Summer Musicals to notify me personally of every performance; it my job to look it up if I care about what they do!
It is not the job of a teacher to notify every parent of everything, every day! Geesh!
Some of us teach up to 185 kids, do you understand that?
We TEACH!
That means teach, grade, tutor, evaluate, report, mediate, etc. Do you also know that many parents give us false phone numbers?
And, to set the record straight, we do hand out flyers to YOUR kids to take home?
I am glad you are involved with your kid. Have you taught your kid to tell you when he or she is behind and needs help? Have you taught your kid to tell you what is going on in the school?
What have you done to help?
Do you volunteer to set up the website to notify parents?
Do you come to parent-teacher meetings, meet other parents or set up a phone tree to notify each other about events?
We do work on school issues. We work at meetings, at training sessions, in the halls, in the classrooms.
Every day.
Oh, and my mom asked me, as opposed to my teachers, if I ate lunch.
Whose job is it?
I agree with you. Where is this mom? I am a mother of three and I work.
I make the time to volunteer in each of my children's schools--and I have 3 children in 3 different schools.
It is hard, time consuming, and rewarding at the same time.
I fully inform myself as to what is going on at school. I search each of their homework folders and backpacks daily to make sure I am aware of everything that is going on.
Parenting is the hardest job you will ever do, and it takes a deliberate choice to become a parent.
Work with the schools and the teachers.
The teachers love, teach and care for your child 8 or more hours a day and they don't complain.
They are paid poorly and sometimes treated as second class citizens by parents.
Be proud and speak highly of your childs teacher. When your child hears you praising his or her teacher, he or she will feel that way.
I am quite sure you would be offended to know your boss talked poorly of you to his peers and family.
Put yourself in the teachers shoes. Teachers take their job home with them everyday and come back the following day with smiles on their faces.
Whose Job Is It?
YES! YES! YES!
As a teacher in the Dallas ISD, (we're not supposed to say "DISD" anymore...to help remove the "stigma"...), I'm so, so sick of raising children who are not my own "biologically". You would not believe how many times I've furnished pencils, papers, spiral notebooks, journals and yes, even belts, shirts, and pants, for some of my students. And what's worse...after I give them these things, they come in on Monday morning with new $70 tennis shoes and talking about their PS2's.
I'm also really tired of being accused of being racist more times than I can count because I expect EVERY one of my students to treat me with respect. I seriously do treat all my students the same. I think that you will find that most teachers do the same.
My biggest problem? Teachers who SCREAM at their students. I have two I work with who belittle, scream, rant, rave and otherwise totally demolish their students' esteem.
I'm talking upper grades in elementary school, here.
I've heard one of the teachers scream at a class and tell them they're stupid. The same teacher has the absolute worst grammar
I've ever heard from a professional person and does not follow the dress codes set down by central administration.
How does she get away with it?
She's black, and so is our principal. This isn't racism. It's just the truth.
Enough said.
[Ed Note: Well, actually, I'm not willing to let you just get away with that statement. I know plenty of black educators--eloquent, gentle, caring, dedicated folks. I'd bet that you probably do as well. So to say it's just because "she's black," probably doesn't do either you or her justice.
Conversely, I knew a white principal who I watched chase kids up and down the hallway screaming at them through a megaphone during early morning "rush hour"--behaving pretty much the same way as your fellow teacher here.
Let's just say it's inappropriate to tear down your students--regardless of what your external appearance happens to be and leave it at that, OK?]
Screaming Teachers
So children are so fragile, you cannot yell at them?
When they refuse to go to class, cuss you out, throw food, cuss you out, refuse to comply with instructions, and fall asleep in class, tell me how gentle kindness works?
So, I guess parents NEVER yell at their kids? Maybe that is the problem!
Maybe parents who teach their kids to "stand up for themselves," never teach them to distinguish between compliance with a teacher's directive versus standing up to a schoolyard bully.
Maybe the parents didn't teach the kid that being disrespectful to ANY adult might get them in your face, yelling, because unlike the parent, they don't tolerate crud from disrespectful little buggers.
Better a teacher yelling now than a cop handcuffing them later. Oh, and by the way, a lot of DISD kids confuse gentility with weakness. They confuse politeness with fear, and respect is greeted with disdain.
Ask any high school teacher what happens when you ask a group of 5-6 non-compliant kids to do something. ONLY if they respect you--the way they see respect "on the street," will they do what you ask.
More often than not, they just go on and do whatever they want.
What does anyone expect when
What does anyone expect when the district is 60% Hispanic?
In fact why would I want to learn English when I have signs in Spanish and most jobs prefer people that speak both English & Spanish?
A conversation I had with people from Africa and they expressed thier displeasure about this. They speak French and yet you don't see signs in French.
It made no sense to them for a country to accomodate people by adapting their country to theirs. It should be the other way around. If I was from another country and wanted to live here, I should learn the langauge.
Plus it's hard to get teachers into Texas especially if they got thier Teaching Certificates from another state. You remove that barrier and you will get more teachers.
This is not the issue that DISD really has, the real problem involves another race that are running good people off. But that's for another topic.
[Ed Note: I'm working on a story about the DISD's bilingual ed program and those very issues. Keep in mind that the district's goal is: by 2010, all schools will have 2-way dual-language education (the same as the rest of the world). I'm a strong supporter of 2-way, and very much opposed to the way it is being done now. It's a waste of resources, and we're creating problems that will cost millions to reverse--if it can be reversed.]
What does anyone expect when
You should learn English as well. You misspelled "accommodate" and "their." Also, please learn the proper use of commas. How can you be so critical given your own limitations?
[Ed Note: Sory, that wuz my falt. I try too edet the storees befour I publich thim. Thiers lots to edet and sumtim I mis stuf (chuckel)!]
to anonymous
If you are going to rip me for two spelling errors. Please sign your name. While you are at it please read what is written.
I was not bashing Hispanics. I am one of the few blacks in DISD that defends Hispanics. Right a lot of people are blaming Hispanics for what's wrong on DISD (and this country). We all know that is wrong.
The point I was making is that if I was Hispanic and didn't speak English, I wouldn't be incline to learn it since everything is in Spanish and English.
Many Blacks are mad because they feel that they are losing out on jobs because they don't speak Spanish. Even if they speak Spanish most Hispanics won't talk to them (and I have seen this happen). The Hispanics prefer to speak to thier own kind in many cases.
Blacks feel that everyone is sucking up to Hispanics since they are willing to work and tend not to complain like Blacks do from time to time. It's not that Hispanics are taking over, its Blacks not taking the first step in fixing the black community and get on pare with our Hispanic counterparts. Because it is getting to the point where no one wants to deal with Blacks.
I "Dont Agree" with your assessment at All!
I’m sorry but its not that "Black Folk" are not taking the first step to solve our own problems in our communities but due to the influx of immigrants into this state, our government see’s it fitting to allow them to work unabated on the premise that it helps our "republic" economy by hiring cheap labor and giving no benefits.
Just think about it, if you were a business owner and had to hire one person. Would you hire the candidate who wants, needs and deserves the most money they can possibly get from your firm or the person who would do the job for almost a fraction of what your are really willing to pay, no benefits and cant complain when your ask them to work over-time but pay them straight time? WHO WOULD YOU HIRE?
My fiancé is looking for a job as a teacher. She has a BBA and has taken the entire test that DISD has required her to take except one. She is not a certified teacher yet but she is Highly Qualified to teach at this point. Why is it that with these credentials she can only sub, but Bilingual (Mostly Hispanic) applicants with no degree can get a job faster on the basis of just being Hispanic and bilingual?
IT'S NOT RIGHT!
Illegal Labor
I'd like to this out to everyone. Illegal labor keeps native born citizens in the ghetto. Here's why:
You are working on a minimum wage job, which here in Texas, is $5.15/hr. Your employer has to keep you on the books, pay taxes, etc. The cost to the employer for all of this, including your pay, actually works out to around $7-$8/hr. You have an illegal immigrant around the corner willing to do the same job for $3/hr off the books.
How in the world do you manage to ask for raise under these circumstances?
Black Flight
A secondary aspect of the increasing Hispanic enrollment is the way that it is moving African Americans out of Traditional Public Schools and into Charter Schools.
There is a trend in the Dallas area toward a three part educational system, those that can pay for education do, mostly white private schools, charter schools for the African Americans who have one nearby and Public schools for Hispanic students.
Has anyone else noticed a similar trend or am I totally offbase?
Black Students Ignored
Our African American students are being ignored in the Public schools as scores in reading, writing, and math are going down.
Instead, of hiring teacher assistants to help in the classrooms with these problem areas, they are more concerned about the Hispanics.
One thing you can do is look at the jobs that they are hiring for. "Bilingual" is the only thing you will see in most school districts.
So what happens to our children?
Why are we just sitting by not saying anything.
Please don't get me started on the churches who cater to them as well. The so called mega churches are offering ESL and Bilinguals classes only offer it because they get a grant for this service.
Why are they not offering math and science learning centers to the public or community?
We have lost, and unless the small people in the community get together to fight for our next generation we will be eliminated.
I'm currently working with a Hispanic teacher and never have I been treated so poorly. I've been accused of stealing and everything else.
These people are the worst and they are far more worse than our white counterparts.
At least the white counterparts have always provided something for our people but these new people will only take from us and leave us stuck out.
Again, I tell blacks get it together. Let the jealousy, rage, and backbiting go and begin thinking about our future here if we still have one.
[Ed Note: Again, folks, the biggest losers in this mess are our kids. We need to figure out how to fix it without completely breaking it again.]
Black Students are Ignored and English is Too
Speaking as a grand parent whose profession was education, whose first day of school was the first day schools in our very small town chose to intergrate public schools, it is terribly disheartening to see my young grandson (along with 6 other Black students) put in a classroom with a Spanish-speaking teacher and a Spanish-speaking teacher's assistant and be totally ignored while trying to grasp the concept of A-B-Cs and primary colors.
He was being taught exclusively in Spanish because the other small children in the room only understood and spoke Spanish.
When I worked with my grandson, he told me that the sounds were different at home than what they were at school for A or C and so on.
Yes, I brought it to his parents, and his principal, and got the same answer over and over: the majority rules
This really shouldn't happen. But it does.
My grandson has struggled through grades 1 and 2 trying to develop solid reading skills.
With family assistance, outside tutors, phonics tools, etc., he is a good reader. But I believe he missed the foundation of his primary school education because the Spanish-speaking teacher was primarily concerned with educating the Spanish-speaking kids.
In all honesty, the teacher and teacher's assistant did not speak English well enough to be in front of a classroom, no matter what the age of the students.
Yes, I realize there is a shortage of Spanish-speaking educators. But some of us remember when schools were first integrated in this country.
If a Black kid couldn't keep up, they were pushed to "special education"---or just left behind.
But I also believe we do non-English speaking people a disservice by not requiring the use of English in public education.
Believe it or not, in any country it is necessary for some form of assimilation. English is the designated language in this country. Why not learn it in school, isn't that what the schools are for?
[Ed Note: I've been assured, by the DISD, that the District doesn't employ teachers who can't speak English. They've virtually called Ron Price, Sarah Dodd and me "liars" for reporting that it happens. Yet, I hear stories like this time after time. I'd sure like to get in contact with some more parents. Please drop me your email address or contact information here.
How Can I Have any Confidence in DISD?
Everything that I see involves a series of cover-ups...
"The DISD hired teachers that can't speak English..."
"DISD takes the kids' school bus..."
"School Activity Funds spent on fancy dinners and knicknacks with forged signatures"
"A child dies in PE and they don't talk to the parent about it for 10 days..."
I am African-American and Middle Class. My wife and I are concerned about putting our future children into this school district.
Right now, we have no faith that the DISD can effectively teach our children. Both of us went to public school K-12. I have serious doubts if my kids will be able to do the same.
I wish that DISD would focus less on PR and more on better education.
Well in defense of DISD,
Well in defense of DISD, it's hard to focus on education children when you have tons of outside factors in the way.
1) That stupid state test that has taken learning away from the teachers. You can't teach kids anything that isn't for that test. I know one girl that couldn't pass it and yet she passed the GED test.
2) The race war between Hispanics and Blacks. Blacks feel the district is ignoring them and Hispanics vice versa.
3) A lot of those crooks that are stealing money are still working in DISD.
4) Everyone is trying ot keep thier jobs as if thier school is list as low performing for a second year, the state can take over and fire the staff.
5) You can't get rid of the 17 year old 9th grader that doesn't want to go school with out getting introuble with the state as truancy is a joke. They go after the kids that have 1-3 absences instead of the ones with 30-40 absences.
6) PARENTS! They are the ones that will runoff DISD employees in a second. Even hardcore gang members treat us with more respect than some parents. You want to know why a child acts a fool look at their parent.
7) Teacher & Staff shortage. You can't get new folk if the current employees are fed up or the old folk won't retire. It takes too long to hire new staff.
You are not offbase, but I
You are not offbase, but I will point out the following: people are getting frustrated when dealing with black students and their parents.
Look at the low performing schools in DISD, isn't it strange that they are mainly black schools in many cases.
Why are they in that state?
Too many black parents refuse to raise thier kids and act like hellraisers when they come to the school.
I have been insulted, threated, ignored and disrepected by black parents (and I happen to be black).
I can't even say hello to a black parent without them getting an attitude with me.
The mothers are by far the worst as they can't stand seeing a young black male working at the school (without being involved in sports).
Many at my school would rather deal with the Hispanics than Blacks since they are easier to deal with.
Even when you try to help them, those black parents will still give you grief. It's like they don't care and it's always someone else's fault for thier child's failure.
[Ed Note: "We report. You decide!"]
Stereotypical Racist Remark
First of all to say that all black parents are disinterested in their children’s education is a bald face lie and a biased generalization.
Usually what a Parent values their kids will also value; meaning that if parent values religion then they will take their child to church and teach them about the bible and so forth.
Similarly, if you have a parent that dropped out of school and that particular parent (white, black) never learned the value of a good education don’t expect the child to be as interested in education (there is always exceptions to the rule).
I take it the teacher who posted this comment teaches in a low income area. The parents in low income areas tend to focus on paying bills and keeping their children alive and out of jail rather than giving priority to academia.
These parents fail to see: the only thing that is going to break the chains of poverty is education (a vicious cycle that repeats and repeats poverty with each generation).
So the next time you guys have a discussion about the state of black America feel free to include me.
Because if you have not lived it you can’t understand it!
(Pharmsboy@yahoo.com)
[Ed Note: Excellent observations]
Not Just Me!
It's not just me that came up with that conclusion. Many DISD employees and even other students (of ALL races) feel the same way. For the most part the kids do care, it's the parents that don't.
You have to feel sorry for these kids.
Many of those parents aren't poor. Many are business professionals that have put jobs over thier kids.
It's not being poor that's the issue. It's thier behavior that is wrong. No parent has the right to threaten, verbally abuse or assault us. We have rules to follow by and they must respect that.
African Americans and Generational Poverty
Several of folks here have commented on the nature and needs of African Americans students. In the Black Flight post I was attempting to illustrate that Dallas currently has a somewhat racially segragated schools of choice model, not by design, but it is the way it is working out.
I was also attempting to suggest that Non ELL (native speakers) in the DISD are losing programs in order to fund programs for ELL learners. (English Language Learners). Look for the gutting of the Vanguard/Academy/Magnet programs, great Schools of Choice programs and the Learning Centers in the coming months.
One poster seemed to suggest that Black Students were "this way" or "that way." It is not the ethnic background of the student that is the problem, it is the burden of generational poverty.
For those of you playing along at home, generational poverty is family that has lived in poverty for several decades.
Students who come from this background have different needs than those that suffer from immigrational poverty. The former will tend to have a "damned if you, damned if you don't" mentality of learned helplessness from years and years of being on the tailend of the economic parade.
Those new to the country may have a better attitude. They tend to be more motivated. They had to go to the trouble to leave where they were to come to Dallas.
While poor at times (by Dallas standards) compared to the living conditions of the average rural Latin American having a non-dirt floor, indoor plumbing and 24 hours of on demand electricity is the good life.
One may view schools an instrument of oppression or with apathy, the other may see them as presenting opportunity.
Back to the main point: it troubles me that so much effort is being exerted to serve a group of students whose test scores would suggest that there are other groups with greater needs.
It's also concerning that the hiring practices in DISD will value one's language skills more than their ability to be an effective teacher.
As a side note, the teachers I have met that were hired Internationally are usually Mechanical or Electrical Engineers.
One wonders why are they teaching kindergarten instead of High School Math and Science?
Generational Mistakes
What angers me is not that a child comes to the DISD poor, but that his parents are not working to push him to break the cycle of poverty! When he fails, the parents usually say, "Well, he is 16. He is going to do what he wants to do?"
Uh, excuse me? And you feed him, clothe him, buy him birthday presents? What happened to what our parents said: "While under my roof, you WILL work. You WILL go to school, and you WILL make good grades."
One sees girls who are teen mothers at 16. You meet the mom, and she is only 32. And guess what, Grandma is just a tad short of 50! Instead of showing these kids that this no life, they just give them the message, "Hey, you turned out okay. Go ahead."
Sexual activity is prevalent in 7-8th grade now! Kids don't read boooks anymore. They aspire to be rap singers or ball players. Oh, but damn if the teacher doesn't hear the race card used if they try to get that kid to work.
At least black teachers can say things to black kids that white teachers can't.